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Town of Lisbon, |
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•This website was designed and implemented by Josh Earl and is maintained by Josephine Skiff Changes additions should be directed to the Town Clerk. |
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TOWN OF LISBON TOWN BOARD MEETING April 9, 2008 6:00 PM Present: Supervisor Don Strader, Councilman C. Joseph Collins, Highway Superintendent Timothy Dow, Councilman Tom Schneller, Town Clerk Donna McBath, Councilman C. Roger Shoen, Attorney Charles Nash, esq., Councilman Vincent Winters Guest: Greg Denny, Legislator David Forsythe, Steve & Cindy Major, Daren Strader, Tim Dishaw, Larry Trombley, Matt McAllister Ogdensburg Journal, Robert A. Spooner, Matt McAllister, Jason G. Spooner, Bob Flavin, Patrick Madlin 1. Meeting Called to Order Supervisor Don Strader called the meeting to order at 6:00 PM. 2. Pledge Allegiance • Minutes Approvals • March 12, 2008 Councilman Collins made a motion, seconded by Councilman Winters to approve the meeting minutes of March 12, 2008. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 4. Approval of Town Clerks Report Councilman Schneller made a motion, seconded by Supervisor Strader to approve the Town Clerk's Report for the month of March 2008. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 5. Approval of Town Justice Reports Councilman Winters made a motion, seconded by Councilman Collins to accept the Justice Reports for the month of March 2008. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 6. Recognition of Guest • Pat Madlin - was here to observe the meeting. • Daren Strader - Asked for the board to make a motion for the St. Lawrence Valley Sportsman's Club to have one day without shooting. He requested that the board consider for the neighbors of the Sportsman Club. Attorney Nash commented that maybe he would want to discuss this at a later time in the meeting. • Cindy and Steve Majors - commented that if the Sportsman Club and plowed the road, there wouldn't be an accumulation of snow. Supervisor Strader stated that the Sportsman Club Road is a private road, and the town has no jurisdiction on private roads. • Larry Trombley - had no comments • Approval of Transfers Councilman Schneller made a motion, and was seconded by Councilman Collins, to approve the following transfers as follows: Transfer $3,000.00
Transfer $4700.00
8. Approval of Abstracts Councilman Collins made a motion, seconded by Supervisor Winters to approve the abstracts from March 2008.
Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 9. Approval of Supervisor Report Councilman Collins made a motion, seconded by Councilman Winters to approve the Supervisor Report. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 • Report from Legislator • Legislator Forsythe informed the board that he attended a Bion meeting the night before. He suggested that the Lisbon Board appoint a task force of their own because it appears that Lisbon is one of the ideal spots for it. The task force should contain a mix of people for and against the Bion plant. Supervisor Strader stated that the board is all open-minded on this subject. The meetings are scheduled every second Tuesday of every month in the County Board Room. • Legislator Forsythe stated that he was appointed to the committee to look into chargebacks that are on the Land and County Taxes. Some towns are concerned about what is charged in the chargeback. The main things the legislators are looking into are the workman's compensation and payroll. • Highway Superintendent Report • Highway Superintendent Dow commented about the Road Trip that was done on April 9, 2008. He stated that even though the mileage was down, the back topping prices are up. He would like to get the road plan signed and sent into the county as soon as possible. Councilman Winters made a motion, seconded by Councilman Shoen to approve the road plan as presented to spend highway. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 • Highway Superintendent Dow stated that the highway department has a 1983 and 1999 loader that is in very much need of repairs. He asked the board for approval to go out to state bid and look into pricing out a new loader with or without a trade in, with the reserve on a state bid to be able to go out for other bids. This is mainly to see if the town could afford a new loader. Councilman Winters made a motion, seconded by Supervisor Strader to have Highway Superintendent Dow to price out bids for loaders and find out the value of the two old loaders. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 • Old Business A. Increase on Fees for Building Permit/Inspection Requests Fees for Building Permit/Inspection Requests & Mileage RateResidential Construction/Business Construction $0.08p/sf Mfg Homes 0.06 p/sf Non-residential construction 0.03/p/sf Construction Cost $1.00 / $1000 Septic System $25.00 Certificate of Occupancy $25.00 Demolition Permit $25.00 Foster Home Inspection/Solid Fuel Appliance Inspection $25.00 Apartment Inspection Fee $30.00 Day Care Inspection Fee $30.00 Miscellaneous Inspections Late filing fee for Building Permits $25.00 Minimum Building Permit Fee $25.00 Fees for Structures that are not occupied of construction costs Such as Tower Permit use fee $600.00 Mileage for use of private vehicle $0.485/mile or Cty Rate Councilman Schneller made a motion, seconded by Councilman Winters to approve the building permit fees schedule. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 • New Business A. Resolution # 8 AMP Membership for The Town of Gouverneur RESOLUTION #8 of 2008 AMP MEMBERSHIP FOR THE TOWN OF GOUVERNEUR WHEREAS, the Town of Gouverneur has passed the following resolutions: (1 to sign the Inter-Municipal Agreement: (2 to sign the AMP/Howrey Retention Agreement; 3) to pay their share of the 2008 AMP membership fee; and (4 to support the draft legislation to the State of NY for the creation of a public authority; and WHEREAS, the Gouverneur Supervisor has signed the Inter-Municipal Agreement and the AMP/Howrey Retention Agreement; and WHEREAS, it would be in the interest of the Town of Gouverneur and in the interest of the AMP municipalities to have Gouverneur as a member of AMP; and WHEREAS, the AMP Commissioners of AMP have unanimously voted to recommend the membership of the Town of Gouverneur; Therefore be it resolved, • That the Town of Lisbon votes to grant the Town of Gouverneur full membership in the Alliance for Municipal Power; and • That a signed copy of this Resolution be mailed to Robert Best, Chairman, AMP, P.O. Box 173, Canton, NY 13617 I certify that this resolution was passed with __ 5 __ Yes votes, __ 0 __ No votes and __ 0 __ Abstentions at a duly convened meeting of the Town of Lisbon April 9, 2008. Supervisor Strader made a motion, seconded by Councilman Collins to grant the Town of Gouverneur to joint the membership of AMP . Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 B. Junk Yard License Fee A discussion was done and the board members all agree that the Junk Yard License Fee would remain the same. C. Trash Removal Was tabled until the next meeting. D. St. Lawrence Valley Sportsmen's Club Attached at the end of the minutes. E. Fuel Quotes Supervisor Strader made a motion, seconded by Councilman Winters to accept Griffith Energy - Rochester for fuel quote of $3.6105 Base (incl delivery) NYS Pricing LSD. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 14. Committee Reports A. Planning Board Minutes - February 15, 2008 Councilman Schneller made a motion, seconded by Councilman Winters to approve the Planning Board Minutes. Ayes - 5 Nays - 0 15. Executive Session Councilman Schneller made a motion, seconded by Supervisor Strader to go into Executive Session pertaining land purchasing at 6:30 PM. Councilman Collins made a motion, seconded by Councilman Winters to return to the regular meeting at 7:00 PM. Discussion on the St. Lawrence Sportsman Club resumed at 7:00 PM Communication between the public, St. Lawrence Sportsman Club members, Attorney Charles Nash and Lisbon Town Board on April 9, 2008 at the Lisbon Town Board Meeting. Supervisor Strader : Not sure of what we are doing. What are we going to do that we have a few problems with the site plan. Greg Denny : Explain to me of what you need. Attorney Nash : Let me kind of explain of what I see we have. I believe there was a public hearing before the Planning Board and the Planning Board I think listen to all sides and came out with a recommendation to issue the special permit of two conditions were adhered too. Okay. One of those was ours and the other one was an annual inspection situation and if I read the minutes of the Planning Board and would discuss with people they don't coincide about an annual inspection and I wasn't there so I don't know what the purpose of the annual inspection. Is there someone from the Planning Board? Pat (Madlin) can you explain what the, that condition was with the annual? Pat Madlin : We felt it would give the town a chance to review the project. (To review the implication.) If the problem developed or something. We would basically have some input on it. Attorney Nash : What happens if the town does not pass that condition? What would be the Planning Board Stands? I guess! Pat Madlin : It would be final then, as far as I am concern. Attorney Nash : OK If the town passes, approves the hours, which I don't think the town has to, I think you guys issuing the permit, but if the town, let say that the town doesn't go along with the No. 2 condition of the annual inspection. What does that does that, would your position be that the Planning Board would still agree to issue a special permit as long as the hours adhered to. Pat Madlin : As far as I am concern, yes. Attorney Nash : OK, there has not been a SEQR (State Environmental Quality Review) done, so the town board has decided to be the lead agency and was going to conduct a SEQR tonight and take public impute from anybody. Asked the questions that need to be asked for the SEQR and let people make comments and then make a decision on the SEQR and if that decision was negative declaration as there wasn't any environmental impacts, then a Planning Board can issue a permit.. If there was a significant environmental impacts and they weren't addressed then you could not have a negative declaration you would have to go on and do a full blown SEQR assessment form, but that is sort of where we are and sort of what the town wanted to do tonight by getting all the parties here is to go through the SEQR, listen to people comments and make a decision. Unknown party : What is a SEQR? Attorney Nash : A SEQR is an abbreviation for State Environmental Quality Review. The St. Lawrence Valley Sportsman Club has fill out their portion of the short Environmental Assessment form part 1. We have one signed by Greg Denny, on April 7 and I will summarize for everybody so they know it said the applicant is St. Lawrence Valley Sportsman Club. The project is a Rifle Range and Shooting House located in Lisbon, 7 Sportsman Club Road, Lisbon, New York. It is describe as a 12' x 20' target, storage and shooting house. Approximately affecting 1.5 acres, I think the total acreage out there is 65 acres. Does anybody!!! Greg Denny : It is 65 acres, but Attorney Nash : only 1.5 acres is Greg Denny : its approximately is 1.5 of which are the rifle range itself. N/A Attorney Nash : so on or off it is affecting 2 of the 65 acres, potentially. It says Will proposed action comply with existing zoning or other restrictions and they checked yes, which I think is correct there is no zoning, there is no restrictions. The only restriction, the one restriction is that you can not fire a weapon within 500 feet of a residential dwelling and that a, Greg Denny : that you don't own Attorney Nash : what Greg Denny : That you don't own Attorney Nash : Correct Greg Denny : Without permission Attorney Nash : 9. What is Present Land Use and they checked agriculture, could be Park/Forest/Open Space also out there. Greg Denny : We just felt we were 10 feet from a corn field, I thought that was Attorney Nash : We can check more than one. Does Action involve a permit or approval, or funding, from any other Governmental Agency? (Federal, State, or Local) No Does any aspect of the action have a currently valid permit or approval that has a tentative Planning Board approval? Greg Denny : That's ??? Attorney Nash : I will make a copy of this application and attached it to the board minutes. Now the board is required to take make some decisions. There are three types of actions under the SEQR. There is a Type 1, Type 2 or and unlisted action. And I have gone through and looked at the rules and regulations and this is an unlisted action so it means you can conduct a SEQR review. And the first question says: Does the action exceed any type 1 threshold in 6 NYCRR, Part 617.4? That is just a reference to where the law is. And the answer to that is NO. Next questions that is asked on the intent assessment is: Will Action received coordinated review is provided for unlisted actions. And the Answer to that is NO. And then you come in the considerations; the environmental considerations that you got to consider and the standard is you have to take a hard look at them. My proposal would be I would read each one and you take public comment on them and then the board can make a decision on each of these environmental aspects. Could Action Result in Any Adverse Effects associated with the Following - And the first one is - Existing air quality, surface or groundwater quality or quantity, noise levels, existing traffic pattern, solid waste production or disposal, potential for erosion, drainage or flooding problems? Is there any one that would like to comment on any of those environmental aspects either for or against whether this propose shooting range would affect air quality, the traffic, noise level, existing traffic pattern, potential for erosion, one of the problems might be lead contamination. Unknown : All of us Attorney Nash : One at the time. Get up, identify yourself and make your comments on it. Steve Majors : Absolutely - The pond is very close to the where the bullets will strike in the berm and so that it would be possible erosion and very likely, so it would need a better back stop and collection point to collect the lead every so often so it does not leach into the pond and that would be probably metal plates and put up the whole length of the berm. About noise level, it would affect the whole neighborhood. And because some of the weapons that have been fired over there, not been listed in their assessment which was done by the firm in Canton. Doesn't mention the AK47 that was fired or any other weapon that not listed would bring the decibel value up above 90 decibels per hour. The danger would also be the young kids who would wander into the woods is a sentence of death for anyone that gets hit by a round whether it is reflected off anything, but kids do go beyond their home territory and wander through the woods. So I don't know how the club would prevent such an occurrence and that needs to be looked at very closely, cause there are kids in the neighborhood. Attorney Nash : Okay, hang on just a minute. Is there someone from the Sportsman Club that wants to comment, not as an argument with Mr. Major, but as a comment on the state environmental impacts and what they feel? Attorney Gary Alford : First of all with the respect to the noise the club has had a noise test done by a professional engineer and we are well below with, I'll pull the report out, I have it with me if you'd like to see it. Fire something like 45 to 55 rounds within 5 minutes from various guns and general business law gives us the complete defense to that noise. Base upon the A-weighted town level and the A-weighted town level is an average sound level over a certain period of time. With respect to people being hit by bullets I suppose somebody could be hit somewhere by a bullet any time, any place. That's the reason the club put a berm up for safety issues and I point out to the Town Board that if the berm was bulldozed down you have no jurisdiction over gun shooting there at all, period. Attorney Nash : I think that we have gone through, I'm just realizing. One of the alternatives to solve this problem as far as the Town is concerned of being out of a law suit is that the berm get plowed down and the building used as a storage building and just apply for a building permit which has to be granted if it is going to be used for storage. The Town then has no liability whatsoever. The Town is out and my understanding is that Sportsmen's Club can go and shoot anytime, any hours, anywhere on the land, as long as you got within five hund... Greg Denny : any weapons??? Attorney Nash : ...and not within five hundred feet. That's certainly not going to please everybody else in the neighborhood and we're trying to avoid that situation so that I hope everybody takes that into account. But they do have that option, that becomes an option and that does probably become more dangerous to people who have children in the area, which is a prime concern. Attorney Alford : With respect to the latter, the EPA has a number of suggested bullet-catching backstops and they range from nothing more than a few inches of sand grated back stop that has to be raked out every once in awhile to simple metal sheets that deflect the bullets up and then have a cone at the top to catch the ricochet and drop it down into a collection tray. They don't regulate how big they have to be, they don't regulate what material they have to be made out of, they're not in any way shape or form regulated, they're just suggested and they're readily available for anybody to review on the EPA website. My understanding is that the club is prepared to install a bullet catcher of that sort. Attorney Nash : Well which sort? The cone and the steel. Attorney Alford : One of the types that the EPA suggests. Attorney Nash : Would you be able to tell us which, which type or at this point? Attorney Alford : I can't. Attorney Nash : Is there anyone? Attorney Alford : Greg Denny can. Greg Denny : Well we would be willing to look at both aspects of it and try to do the safest one we possibly can. Supervisor Strader : Can you produce documents of where it comes from? Greg Denny : Produce documents? Supervisor Strader : Documents of where your information...? Greg Denny : Well go on the EPA website. Attorney Nash : I think what he means is to, whatever system you pick, you notify the Town what it is for public records. Greg Denny : Oh Absolutely. But, the one issue I have with that is, we have a building that's 20 foot wide, the berm is much wider than that, we put the berms up much wider, We would not, I would not be thinking that we were gonna put a steel plate, 100 foot wide down through there to catch. You know, it would be a trap system of, I'm thinking out loud here, is a 20-foot or 30 foot, 25 foot, background that catches the drops. Or the club, I have to bring, I cannot speak specifically I would have to bring this to club members but, or a sand base that would be raked. I prefer the metal, but also the metal, I'm gonna guess that that's gonna make another issue with if they ruled that a tinging from the bullets that might, you know, we would be willing to, we just want to make this go, you know, get better and a metal system seems to be what I would think we can put in. It's just steel plate welded up, with a little catch system and it drops in the tray and you clean the tray out every so often. Attorney Nash : I think that's what they use on those shooting ranges in the military. Greg Denny : Absolutely. Supervisor Strader : I cannot see where these? I don't see where have to postpone the problem??? Greg Denny : Well that's what I'm saying, cause I mean we don't, you know, however you... Supervisor Strader : Wherever you put your targets Greg Denny : We could even mount targets on, in the ground, so they would be, you know, they would have to put their stuff up on them targets. Supervisor Strader : Have a couple wings on your left and right side. Greg Denny : I would go with the recommended, I'm just listening to it from Gary's standpoint but I haven't read it or seen it or you know seen dimensions of one. It doesn't seem like it's too difficult of an endeavor, we'd be willing to eat the cost of that, do something like that to make this... Attorney Nash : Safer and also less polluted. Greg Denny : Less polluted, yes sir. Attorney Nash : Is there anyone else that wants to comment on the air quality, surface, ground water, existing traffic pattern, lead collection, those items? Daren Strader : I'm Darren Strader, 24 Sportsman Club Road, one thing I'm against is I would like one day of peace and quiet. I do have family over, I do a little cookout at my house, and if they can shoot anytime they want to, I mean would you want to have a cookout in your backyard with guns going off? Attorney Nash : The problem. Daren Strader : That's my whole problem. Attorney Nash : And I understand that but they can shoot anytime they want. Daren Strader : That's true. But I'm just, they want to cure all these problems that they're having, you know, Saturdays people have cookouts in their yards, I mean...N/A...find, like outside roofs, one day where I don't have to worry about having a kid out in the yard and family members and listen to guns rack off. I don't know, I have a 30/30 at home, you know, I deer hunt, I'm not against the shootin' range. I'm just against, you know, I bought the house as it was supposed to be a bow-hunting club, not no rifle. But I'm not against them, true, you know, the world changes, but the only thing I had a problem with is that if they can shoot anytime they want what kind of quality life are we gonna have? I ain't gonna be able to have a cookout cause you'll hear guns shootin' off and people ain't gonna wanna come over to my house and listen to that. I don't play my music loud, you know, cause I have respect for my neighbors, you know, I try my best to keep my neighbors happy, and that's my only concern, I want one day that's gonna be quiet, I said Saturday, I don't care if they shoot it, I work, I'm on call 24/5 so, you know, I mean, and I talked to one of our neighbors and yeah, they said they wanted, they wouldn't mind having it, like I said people usually do stuff out in their yards on Saturdays. Attorney Nash : I think that issue has been already discussed before the planning board. Daren Strader : yeah. Attorney Nash : and...yeah Daren Strader : then I got told by Don Strader it wasn't, cause I called him at his house. Supervisor Strader : I don't recall saying that. The public hearing, and I called and talked with you Daren, and I said that was addressed at the public hearing. Daren Strader : I couldn't go. The one day off wasn't talked about at all No it wasn't Supervisor Strader : The one day off wasn't talked about, that I know of, that I recall. Attorney Nash : But the issue, we're focusing on the environmental issues. I understand your issue of noise. Daren Strader : There you go. Attorney Nash : But the hours have been agreed upon and if (let me finish) these gentlemen don't want to go along with the hours the alternative is there's going to be 24/7. And I don't think... Daren Strader : 24/7? That's against the law to go past 9 o'clock, I think it is, to shoot a gun. Attorney Nash : No it isn't. Daren Strader : Yes it is. Attorney Nash : No it's not. Attorney Nash : You have the right, if you Attorney Nash : Is there any other comments about...Those are the environmental issues. Before we go to the next question. Could you identify yourself? Bob Flaven : My name is Bob Flaven and I am a board of directors member and we do pay $4000 a year for taxes for this community. N/A many people talking Attorney Nash - one at a time. Please address. Bob Flaven : I know that one of the things that Mrs. Major was complaining about at one time was the fact that we didn't have some type of safety device to keep the children from shooting in front of us between the building and the berm. We have taken and put clay down both sides from the shooting range from the building down to the berm. This will stop any of this lead from leaching into the pond as Mr. Major was worried about. That berm is clay, the lead is not going to leach out of that into the pond as Mr. Major was worried about. I was involved in it twice for the shooting when the Tisdale's Associates came over and we didn't shoot 22's. I shot my 44. I shot a 30/30. I shot a 12 gauge. A 9mm and Attorney Nash : What's an average number of people, the most you have shooting at one time? Cindy Major : A lot. Attorney Nash : I'm just asking this gentleman. Greg Denny : I betcha I've, when I get out of sight in my guns or shoot with my kids, I've seen 3. Cindy Major : You can't have more than 5. Greg Denny : I've never seen 5. Bob Flaven : We brought this building through the doors, the doors will open up, facing the range, which again and it shoves the (safety) and it also shoves the sound down away from there. What I was going to say is when I was involved in it that day, we had to, in between shootings, there was a dump truck that came in to dump the clay along each side of the rifle range. And the tailgate, when the guy drove ahead, slammed on the brakes and the tailgate slammed it was louder than any weapon we fired. Attorney Nash : That day you fired can you tell us Bob, how many weapons were being fired. Bob Flaven : He's got the whole report. If you guys would like to see the report you're more than welcome to. Attorney Nash : Anything further on those issues? Do we have anyone else who wants to comment on whether there could be an adverse effects of those environmental issues that we just named. If not, I'll go to the next issue. Anyone want to comment on any adverse effects associated with any aesthetic, agricultural, archaeological, historic, or other natural or cultural resources or community or neighborhood character? Daren Strader : Would the loudness of the shooting be called aesthetic? N/A Attorney Nash : If you would like to get up and make a comment please feel free to do at this time? Daren Strader : We'll see if the 12 gauge shot gun is on the list. Unknown : Go ahead we are listening to the ..... Unknown: I think if the club would install some kind of insulation inside their shooting station that would help alleviate some of the noise and absorb some of that noise and not shoot from a standing position outside that station where it creates a lot of noise. Attorney Nash : the Firearms that were fired were 7mm 08 rifle, 243 rifle, 44 magnum pistol, 30-30 22 cal rifle, 16 gauge shotgun. 5 shots from each weapon. Unknown : 12 gauge shotgun is much louder. Attorney Nash : Is there anyone else that has a comment concerning the aesthetic, agricultural, archaeological, historic? Anyone have a comment with regards to Vegetation, fauna, fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant habitats, or threatened or endangered species? Daren Strader : For inter special wildlife, they shooting down there, like I got a hold bunch of geese down there in the corn field, right, in behind me, when they start shooting they won't. They won't come around there. I was watching for them. They won't come around when shooting is going on or they won't come around at all, if they are shooting continuously. Just like the deer. A big ton of deer come out behind my yard. Come out from the corn field, they won't stay long. I like to look at them. Attorney Nash : Any other comments? Steve Major : I would like to state for the record that the SEQR report should be conducted by an independent party and not this party. Attorney Nash : Any other comments? Any actions that was up any adverse effects associated with community's existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a change in use or intensity of use of land or other natural resources? Any comment on the issue. (No Comments) Growth, subsequent development, or related activities likely to be induced by the proposed action? (No Comments) Long Term, short term, cumulative, or other effects not identified in five prior questions? What that is saying is anyone have comments that hasn't been addressed with regards to these environmental issues that they wished to speak upon. Daren Strader : Our quality of life, like our quality of life, you know, for say his neighbor is out behind of his house or the guys house shooting his gun off continuously, you know,... how would you like to hear that every day? Councilman Schneller : I would like to say something. I live right up the road from the one on the Pray Road and there isn't a God Damn thing I can do about it. Daren Strader : Yeh I know about that issue to. Councilman Schneller : OK I just wanted to say ..... Daren Strader : But at the same do you like it? Councilman Schneller : It's everybody right. Daren Strader : Yeh, I know it's everybody's right. But we're trying to work something out. Councilman Schneller : The other thing is if they don't have a berm there and they shoot into the woods my kids. When I drive up and down that road there is nothing I can do about it. If they make their Sportsman Club less safe, There's nothing we can do about it. As long a you remember that. Attorney Nash : Are there any other impacts that people think that should be brought up with regards to environmental adverse effects if the shooting range is conducted at the location it is, with the hours been talked about. Greg Denny : I would like to say one last thing, that is to re-iterate to everybody here that what was said that we could do, would be a pretty simple thing fix ......to knock that bern down, push the building out get a building permit and, you know, you guys wouldn't have to deal with it. That would be the end of it. That would be the easy way out. We stuck through this because we realize as a club that we want to be safe in the community and the responsible part, I do understand that there will be people not be happy at certain times, I understand that. We can all talk about things we don't like. Like don't like the neighbor that has a dog that barks. I do understand that. We try to address hours, we try to address safety. Safety is a big issue. The life of contamination we are willing to address that. But there got to be a point where it stops...Where we can do as were supposed to do and try, you know, this is not a constant, prior of what the neighbors think. You know some parts of this year this thing doesn't even get used. So I just wanted to let everybody to understand it would be very simple to just push the berm down. We don't want to do that. We want to make it safe. I don't want to be shooting into a pile of woods and have some kid a mile down get whacked with a stray bullet. I understand that a berm is needed. That's all I got to say. Attorney Nash : The next question - The board will - There are two questions. The board is going to have to make a decision on is will the project have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the establishment of a critical environmental area and the second question is there, or is there likely to be controversy related to potential adverse environmental impacts? Probably the board will answer the last question saying, yes, there is controversy, as the neighbors don't like the shooting range. I think that is very apparent. Greg Denny : Can I make a quick statement on that. A couple of neighbors. We have many neighbors that showed up at that planning board meeting in our favor. Many!! And that has got to be in the record. Many, Many, neighbors showed up. Neighbors that live closer than these people showed up. Cindy Majors : How much closer can you get. Greg Denny : What I am saying Cindy Major : N/A Greg Denny : The gentleman in the last trailer is apply and has got an application to join now. I'm just saying, the lady at the very end of the road, she spoke in favor of us. I'm not saying, I understand they have a point, but lets make it known that yes there are some and there are some aren't. Supervisor Strader : Thank You Greg. Daren Strader : I am not against their shooting range; I am against is, I want one day that I know that I can have that N/A Supervisor Strader : Daren we have heard that before Greg Denny : Yeh Supervisor Strader : Lets move on, that is in our minds, seriously. We won't forget it. Councilman Schneller : N/A..... may be the only day to site in their guns. Many people talking ........ Attorney Nash : Mr. Strader we been through this, the problem the public official have is that as this gentleman says, we can have that berm can be plowed down, then there is no restriction and no safety, that is the alternative. Daren Strader : I would like to say N/A Attorney Nash : They are not going give into a day of no shooting, that the bottom line, so the alternative is 24/7 or the hours that are here. That's the problem guys, and the board is in the middle. Steve Majors : The board is supposed to take care of the residents of this town. Unknown speaker - All the residents - All the residents exactly. Steve Majors : But you're not a resident. Quiet Attorney Nash : Does the board want to move on to make a decision on whether they are going to find a ....N/A Robert Spooner : We all pay dues down there, we all pay taxes for that land, does that count for anything. Supervisor Strader : Yes it does. We took care - That allow us to take care that from the public hearing planning board and this just reiterating it and it is unnecessary. Because it was brought to the town board attention, but it's the Planning Board that makes the decision. So let's continue Charlie. Attorney Nash : The town has heard the public's comments, to the town board and it appears the concerns are the two concerns that are important, well 3 concerns, safety is a concern, time of shooting is a concern and collection of lead seems to be a concern. Having heard everything is the board, the board can declare, we have a couple of options: You can say that there is a negative declaration which is mean, you do not feel there is any significant perfects to environments whatsoever. You can make a negative declaration saying if the lead contamination issue is addressed, we feel there is not other negative adverse environment impacts. You can state that we believe there is significant environmental impacts caused by the shooting range and required the sportsman club to file, a lack of a better word, I call it long form SEQR application a full an environmental impact statement. So that basically in summary there are three options are to say, there is no impact what so ever, there is an negative impact as long as the lead contamination is addressed, or there is a positive effect on the environment which would require further environmental stakes to be filed. So you would probably need a motion for the board which alternative you want to follow and vote on that. Councilman Schneller : Attorney opinion. Where do we stand the issue? Attorney Nash : I think I told you where legally you stand and what is going to happen and the absolute thing you are trying to avoid is a having that berm pushed down and having some child be shot out there in the woods. I think that is, if everybody in this room doesn't agree with that, that is the most in my mind the biggest concern far out weigh the noise, the hours or even the lead contamination of the water. A child or adult can't be.... And I'm talking of somebody that I have defended shooting cases and been involved in death shooting cases. So I would think you would want to avoid having that berm pushed down. I think the second thing to address is the lead contamination. And if you do say that there is a negative impact on the environmental as long as there is a lead collection system that is probably, I think advising the town board the safest way to go. I think the hours have already been addressed and that is not the issue here. So I think if your talking of environmental and safety issues the things you want are the berm there and a lead collection system. And that is the way you feel you initial a negative declaration as long as the lead collection system is addressed and is taking care to your satisfaction. I am not a voting member of this thing and that is the legal opinion, it's not, you certainly have the right to vote any the way you want and vote against that, or what ever it's not, it is your decision to make. Supervisor Strader : Anymore discussion from the town board? Any motions. Councilman Schneller : I personally don't want to see that berm gone. The lead, if you are willing to put the bullet traps in. "So I make a motion that we go with the second one negative declaration, as long as the lead collection system in place, the deal will go on. Supervisor Strader : Any second. Do I hear a second? Roger Shoen raised is hand for the second. Supervisor Strader : All in favor Aye Attorney Nash : You should take a roll call. Supervisor Strader : Tom Aye Roger Aye Vinny Aye Joe Aye Myself Aye Attorney Nash : So what is going to be entered into the minutes is the application of the negative declaration as long as the contamination issue is addressed by a safety devise which I assume will be furnished to the board. You have hours Supervisor Strader will sign the environmental form, as soon as that issue is addressed, the safety collection issue the a permit will be issued. Supervisor Strader : Thank you Charlie Attorney Nash : Is that, Do you Pat (Madlin) have any comments or is that the way you see it and that your board would. Pat Madlin : NA Attorney Nash : And to the Planning Board - The Code Enforcer Officer has always has the right to call up whoever is the head of the Sportsman Club, You know, do you mind if I come down look at it and just so you got another eye to look at it for safety consideration Greg Denny : I would be happy to have them involved....... Attorney Nash : Because I think again we don't want anyone shot. And so if the Code Enforcer officer gee I just went to school and they came up with this new fancy thing that I should look at. I look at it and you guys are in good shape or this is a concern. The more eyes that look at it but nobody is trying to harass the sportsman club or harass the people, I think everybody doesn't want someone shot. Greg Denny : N/A Attorney Nash : This has been a very long road. Greg Denny : A Very long road. 17. Adjournment Councilman Schneller made a motion, seconded by Councilman Winters to adjourn the meeting at 7:45 P.M. Respectfully Submitted, Donna D. McBath Town Clerk Gouverneur |
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